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Apr. 6th, 2008

Tired & a bit depressed, possibly due to PMS, I'm not sure.


Downloaded & watched yesterday's DW episode, which I could have seen perfectly legally on tv, if between Torchwood and aunt I hadn't forgotten to program the recorder. I've no idea how they do it, mixing utterly cacktastic plots with just the right emotional punches (the scenes with Donna and her grandfather almost made me sniff a bit), but it works for me. Although OTOH I'm also getting a little tired of all those women practically begging for their lives to be given some meaning by the Doctor. I know it's not about male or female, strictly speaking, it's about a brush with the extaordinary and miraculous, and there's Jack, who waited 100 years, but the Doctor is still a man, and most of the companions are still women. That it isn't a romantic kind of love -- or even if it isn't, because I'm not so sure about that with Donna, no matter what she said -- doesn't really make it any better. If anything, that's what made Martha's (and possibly Jack's) self-preservation instincts kick in and walk out.


I'm still reluctant to rewatch the TW finale and put myself through that emotional wrangler again, but speaking of which... I tend to take the Captain's Blog with a grain of salt, because while it does give some factual information, on an emotional level it always seems rather less deep or complicated than the show itself, but can we say 'aww'?! :)


[ETA: Although, 'aww' or no, what people said about JKR and the Dumbledore outing goes more then doubly here. If they wanted a scene with Jack turning to Ianto for comfort, they should have put it on the show itself, maybe instead of one of the kinky sex innuendos, for which there seemed to have been enough time. And other than JKR they really don't have much of a good excuse for not having done that.]

[ETfurtherA: Because, seriously. We saw Gwen doing exactly that with Rhys, and then we saw Jack, standing in the doorway, watching Gwen take down the files of the missing persons, and for me that scene is not so much about a shared pain, but the fact that this stands between them so that they can't even talk about it or comfort each other, and how this saddens Jack. It's not as if I go looking for Jack/Gwen subtext, but it's hard not to see it there.]

Comments

( 10 comments — Leave a comment )
(Deleted comment)
solitary_summer
Apr. 6th, 2008 12:40 pm (UTC)
I haven't seen any of the old series, but I've been kind of wanting to... Where would you recommend starting? In the beginning? Any particular Doctor?

The religious elements... I've been thinking about that, actually, and started to rewatch DW with an eye out for it, but the new TW season derailed me a bit. Before S3 I always saw the Doctor a bit like a minor pagan god, maybe - not all-powerful, but something different, distant, non human, with all that playful enjoyment of life and creation, and the human companions he loved and invariably lost. Then Family of Blood changed a lot, because if he ran and hid himself because of his own powers and what he might do, it implies that he's a lot more powerful than he ever let on. And then of course the messianic streak came out in full force in the S3 finale in ways that partly worked but partly made me a bit uncomfortable. I'm kind of wondering where they're going to take it this season...


What bugs me so much about the Captain's Blog entry is that I've seen this in their relationship ever since TKKS, and I really was hoping to see it on screen too this season, because it would at least have given us a hint of what Jack is looking for in this relationship.
(Deleted comment)
solitary_summer
Apr. 6th, 2008 07:39 pm (UTC)
Oh, thanks a lot! That was really helpful!
solitary_summer
Apr. 6th, 2008 01:05 pm (UTC)
(Wrote the earlier reply before your edit.)

I personally try to look at it as a characterization thing, though I may just be fooling myself.

I think you may be right, which is why I really hope that we'll be getting a third season, because now they've actually established they're in some sort of relationship, they could finally start to explore that a bit, as well as Ianto's character. It's so weird, because when supposedly everyone is bisexual and fine with it anyway, you either have to assume it's due to characterisation, or, like people did throughout the season, some inherent homophobia, which on the whole I tend not to believe. If you can have naked sex, a hug surely can't be a problem? In a way I could see Ianto still being unsure about his relationship with Jack, where he stands and what Jack wants from him (except sex), and reluctant to risk any kind or rejection, but rather waiting for Jack to come forward, or at least that's how it looked like in the first few episodes, and I'm not sure just how much that has changed. Which of course would make the dance in SB even more of a statement. But maybe it's really just a personal thing...

The doors open when Jack returns and Gwen runs out + hugs him - Ianto doesn't.

He sort of half reaches out, and Jack pulls him close the rest of the way, but considering the stress he's been under, and how he stormed into the Hub ready to shoot John (and I'm pretty sure unlike Gwen he wouldn't have stopped to ask for a reason not to) even that is a pretty understated reaction...





(Deleted comment)
solitary_summer
Apr. 6th, 2008 09:28 pm (UTC)
Hm, but what if Ianto is just not a huggy type person?

I'm so sorry for not having been clearer, I meant a problem from the writer's/producer's perspective, since quite a few people were complaining that TPTB had gone homophobic, were turning TW straight, etc., with all the Jack/Gwen and comparative lack of Jack/Ianto mid-season. Which I don't really believe, so I totally agree with you, it really seems to be a character thing.

And I totally agree with your write-up, there has been a lot of relationship building this season, probably as much as could have been expected with such a shaky start. I guess the problem is that I've been a bit on the edge about the Jack/Gwen thing since the first episode, because it's so very much the conventional, the expected thing, especially when Jack so obviously does love Gwen, while the Jack/Ianto arc is something really new for that kind of tv show...

(Deleted comment)
tencrush
Apr. 9th, 2008 07:41 am (UTC)
[ETA: Although, 'aww' or no, what people said about JKR and the Dumbledore outing goes more then doubly here. If they wanted a scene with Jack turning to Ianto for comfort, they should have put it on the show itself, maybe instead of one of the kinky sex innuendos, for which there seemed to have been enough time. And other than JKR they really don't have much of a good excuse for not having done that.]

Yes, yes, yes, I agree completely. I don't think there's any excuse, and lord knows we could have done with one less kink innuendo. I think it makes the relationship appear somehow lesser than Gwen/Rhys (and that's not helped by the constant implications that a Gwen/Rhys type thing is what Jack is PINING for.) If he HAS that level of relationship with Ianto, they're doing a damned bad job of showing us, and writing it in in the American blog doesn't really make up for that. I've said this loads of times already in my rambling meta, but still.

I friended you, by the way (I also quoted you in my LJ and pointed a few people your way), I MEANT, at the time, to comment on your post about Jack and Fragments, because I thought you brought up some really interesting stuff about the enslavement aspect and the relationship he has with TW as an organisation. But then life got in the way and I didn't, and now I've forgotten what I was going to say. It was well worth a read, though, thanks.
solitary_summer
Apr. 9th, 2008 06:10 pm (UTC)
You're welcome! And never mind! :)


It's not so much that Jack and Ianto don't have a hearts & flowers conventional romance relationship that bothers me; considering how they started out it's rather understandable. It's how the Jack/Gwen thing was handled by comparison that had me on the edge since the first episode, because for me there never was a scene that convinced me -- on a gut level, rather than after rewatching & analysing & rationalising -- that Jack wouldn't dump Ianto for Gwen if she suddenly became available. It occurred to me that this might be due to all the heteronormative tv show cliches I've absorbed over a couple of decades more than TW itself, but on the whole I rather doubt it...


Edited at 2008-04-09 06:11 pm (UTC)
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