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Aug. 10th, 2009

Okay. I give up. I don't get it. I've rewatched the first two and a half episodes now, and I still don't understand where all that clingy!abused!Ianto and asshole!Jack and tragic!unrequited!love is coming from. I didn't see any of that the first time - in fact I had a lot less issues in this respect with CoE than I had with S2 -, but after everything I've read since I thought (was afraid, to be more precise) it'd be pretty much unavoidable. I'm still not seeing it.

And what's really ironic is that I always thought I was unhealthily obsessive about power imbalances in (fictional) relationships. (Real life relationships too, at that.) My favourite long-time OTP are Delenn and Sheridan from B5 and you don't get more carefully power-balanced and partnershipy in every way than these two. I do have the tendency to get interested in relationships that are a bit fucked up, the kind that survive a lot and still remain intact (Buffy and Spike, Angel and Wesley) but I always believed that unequal relationships were the ultimate no-no for me. Like the later X-Files seasons and the resolution of the Mulder/Scully arc in the finale, when Scully doesn't even get asked any longer what she wants to do, just dragged along on Mulder's quest for the Truth that is Out There, which still makes me angry after all this time, and I'm saying this as someone who was quite fond of the pairing for a while. Buffy/Angel? Yikes. Not romantic.

Or Brian and Michael in QaF:US - I could barely even watch them, because I found Michael's puppy dog adoration and jealousy and how it fucks up his relationships so completely embarrassing, not to mention the way Brian uses him, knowing this (and, to once again qualify, I mostly really do like Brian otherwise). To me that wasn't even friendship, much less love. (Which is why I was a bit surprised when I was finally watching the British version and found myself cheering for Stuart and Vince...)

So I've really been wondering if I do have issues that I wasn't aware of on top of all the issues that I am aware of, or... actually I don't know what the alternative would be.

What I'm seeing is two people working out the terms of a very complicated relationship.

Take Day Three, the 'We better make the most of it' scene.

Jack clearly isn't happy to discuss his dying and coming back again, most likely because very probably every single discussion he's ever had about that with people he loved has been painful and doomed from the start, and even addressing the subject is a reminder of every person he lost over it, one way or the other. So when Ianto wants to discuss this now, after Jack's most recent and most dramatic death that took the Hub and the remainder of Torchwood with it, I think Jack more or less excepts Ianto to be finally unable to deal with it. He can't change it, he can't (and won't) lie about it, there's no point in sugar-coating the truth, so it may sound a bit brusque, but I think that's also because he's essentially preparing himself for Ianto to break off whatever relationship they've had so far. Especially when Ianto brings up the point about aging that bothered Alice so much she wanted Jack out of her life, just like her mother. Most recently a bare couple of days before. And Alice's other point, that Jack was dangerous to the people around him... well, the explosion already proved that, just in case Ianto (or Jack) needed another reminder.

And then it's a bit like the end of They Keep Killing Suzie all over again, with Ianto actually surprising Jack, pretty much declaring this a relationship - 'We better make the most of it then'. Because the thing is, Jack couldn't ask then, not after the whole Lisa disaster, and I don't think he believes he really has the right to offer a relationship that is fraught with so many issues and bound to be both painful and dangerous to the person he loved, so once again it has to be Ianto.

But looking at Jack's smile, I think it's pretty clear he's mostly happy about it. It's a bit bittersweet, not the usual brilliant movie star smile, because he can't ignore the knowledge that at one point this is going to hurt like hell, certainly him, more likely both of them, but it's genuine.

And considering all the 'love' vs. 'just sex' debates during S2, it's maybe worth pointing out that it's made very clear that Jack's reaction has nothing to do with kinky stopwatch sex this time ('the world is ending').

And at this point at the very latest? It's no longer unrequited.


Aug. 11th, 2009 01:08 am (UTC)
You're welcome. I suppose it's because we each bring our preassumptions and wishes and background to each viewing, but I've read reviews on shows and though 'were we even watching the same programme?'

I wonder sometimes if I interpret TW differently because I came to it relatively late (March last year) and saw up to episode 9 of s2, I think it was, in a solid block over a fortnight's worth of nightly viewings. It's frustrating, having missed out on a lot of meta. Especially now that rivier is so heartbroken and angry by CoE that she's locked her entries, meaning I didn't get to save some of her meta (I did get the one on KKBB, though, thank God.)

Which reminds me, I was going through your commentary on past episodes just then and you mentioned that there was a kiss cut from 'Adam'. Can you tell me about that?
Aug. 11th, 2009 07:11 am (UTC)
Which reminds me, I was going through your commentary on past episodes just then and you mentioned that there was a kiss cut from 'Adam'. Can you tell me about that?

That was apparently a mistake - JB mentioned something in his autobiography about a scene in one of the early episodes where Ianto 'has a meltdown in the Hub one night, for reasons far to complicated to go into here, but if you've seen it, you'll know. I have to admit it's one of my favourite episodes to date. Anyway, while Jack comforts Ianto, he shifts from innocent consolation to a full-on passionate embrace and kiss'. (And no one yelled 'cut', so they kept on kissing for a couple of minutes or so...) I always thought that must have been Adam, but I think (don't ask me to quote a source, though) at some point later JB clarified it was actually the scene in TtLM.

(edited for stupid typo - sorry for the spam)

Edited at 2009-08-11 09:43 am (UTC)
Aug. 11th, 2009 12:26 pm (UTC)
That makes sense from the description, not that I'd call it a meltdown. And no worries on the spam, I've just double messaged you by forgetting to put a TW icon on the first reply!


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